What is this for you ?

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What is this for you ?

Postby Ganesh H Shankar » Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:51 pm

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This is a famous sculpture by one of the famous sculptor. If you **don't know about this** then please share what this abstraction means to you. What thoughts this work of art triggers in your mind ? How do you explain this ? There is no right/wrong answers here. Just share your view.

If you know about this then please keep quite for now :)
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Re: What is this for you ?

Postby AratiRao » Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:48 pm

hi ganesh.
looked at it for a loooong time. squinted at it. came back to it.
the closest i can get to is that it is a quill in an ink pot. something replenishing itself.

:) a
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Re: What is this for you ?

Postby Prithvi K » Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:34 pm

"Balancing Act", more in terms of the way we balance life (Family, Friends, Health, Work, Spirit).
The Varying thickness represents the amount we need to balance in different stages of this life.
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Re: What is this for you ?

Postby Nilanjan Das » Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:09 am

I think Ganshi is not in Bangalore, hence trying to fill up in his absence. Two very nice thoughts, especially I loved Prithvi's interpretation, Arati even your thoughts are no less. Expecting some more responses, as Ganshi already mentioned, there is nothing right or wrong about it. No reason to feel that not getting close to what this is would mean that the person has less intellect :-). I know there are some members in the forum who have been very active about abstract images and the way they are interpreted. We just wanted to see how the same image gets response with and without a caption, with or without the name of the creator. It would be real fun to discuss the role of argumentative interpretations in support of images, specially the non literal, open ended abstract creations. This would help many ( at least those who are serious about art ) to understand a few important aspects of the relation of their images with the viewers. This is just the beginning of an interesting and important set of discussions. If you all show interest then we may be able to proceed. Everyone has a voice, every mind has an output, it deserves to be heard and shared. If you are silent then we can not even understand if you are at all interested or not, a lot of us work hard trying to carry this genre of art to the future. Trust me, the image making part is the most easy part, what is difficult is the conception of ideas or even knowing how an image needs to carried to the mind of the viewer. The ultimate success of an image lies if the image is accepted by the viewer. One can easily say that the viewer did not understand, that is nothing but passing the buck !!! The viewer has no responsibility, it is the responsibility of the artist to reach deep within the heart of the viewer. So, if you have strong convictions in support of your images, plz do not hesitate to share. There would be arguments, disagreements, but what will emerge from there will remain forever. Looking forward to some more thoughts both from our new members as well as those who have been with us for quite some time.
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Re: What is this for you ?

Postby Prashanth Sampagar » Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:14 am

First thing came to my mind when I saw this image is 'Elegance of a dancer'. Later, I found the answer in the internet, but I'm still clueless. I would wait for your view on this.

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Re: What is this for you ?

Postby Hrishikesh N » Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:35 am

The "balance" in this creation makes it an Engineering Marvel. For me its a flame on the tip of a candle or an oil lamp. Several other thoughts also, but this seems to be the strongest.
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Re: What is this for you ?

Postby Vikas T R » Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:04 pm

many thoughts, first it looked like a pregnant lady, next it looked like a human without head (without thoughts), next it looked like a balancing act of life.
"The art of simplicity is a puzzle of complexity."
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Re: What is this for you ?

Postby Nilanjan Das » Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:15 pm

Very nice thought Prashant but why did you look for the answer in the internet ? We know the answer, but we are looking for only what it means to you. It is not about how close you are to the original caption or not. I would request everyone not to look for the answer on the internet, plz let your imaginations out like some of our good friends have done. The image is also what it means for you. :) Good thoughts on balance coming from all over, wonderful actually, some more thoughts on this plz ?? Any other directions on this ??
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Re: What is this for you ?

Postby Rajkumar » Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:26 am

Ok here is what I did. Looked at it and imagined myself touching and feeling it. Where would my touch linger and what memories/ emotion does it evoke.
My thoughts were around that neck portion. Definitely feminine like a waist. But also motherly connection to a another one from its own form. That gentle umbilical connection.
Returned to the sharp tip tapering from a bulge. Meant to me the protective aspect of a mother
Art is about what is inside rather than what is outside
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Re: What is this for you ?

Postby Nilanjan Das » Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:53 am

Brilliant Raj, very nicely analyzed.
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Re: What is this for you ?

Postby Madhav Jois » Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:37 am

Its day three and i give up. I am not able to see beyond the obvious shapes and curves :( The tip of the sculpture appeared like elephant tusk to me, rest is a puzzle..
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Re: What is this for you ?

Postby Samyak » Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:49 pm

Looked it a lot many times since Ganesh had post this image. Trying hard to resist the temptation of googling it or reading others responses.
But, here I try, it looks like flower bud/leaf just emerging out of the pot/earth and looking up towards the word all enclosed within itself before it opens up and blooms into a beautiful flower/plant.

thank you, Nilanjan da, for bringing me back to this.
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Re: What is this for you ?

Postby Abhisek Majumdar » Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:47 pm

For me this is a journey of a soul...
We all start with a given base... a foundation.. which is like a receptacle where we imbibe & assimilate the impressions and move on to create a direction for self...
Then again this direction, this objective of life appears to be too short lived and it quickly wanes out...
And we stand at an inflection point from where we try to extend our reach to connect with the larger world...the open tip of the statute is like that soul looking for that connection with "nothingness" of the external world...

Thanks for your patience to read through this craziness !!

Abhisek :)
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Re: What is this for you ?

Postby nirlep » Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:14 pm

Quill in an ink pot as Arati said for me till I looked at it for long enough... and separately at the two parts
the top part first
A fish leaping out of water,
A motherly form, definitely feminine
The bottom part..
an ink pot but it wouldn't have a tapered neck i guess
a candle and a flame
flame from a welding torch

what do I feel looking at the image
nothing at the moment. doesn't stir anything in me.
could it be due to the color? or lack of it Nilanjan?
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Re: What is this for you ?

Postby Nilanjan Das » Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:23 pm

This is getting really interesting and I wish Ganshi were here :-). Since he posted, I think it would be better to wait till he comes back and in the mean time we can still try to do some digging and scratching and head banging trying to figure out what this means to us ......:-). Once Ganshi is back we hope to begin a good discussion again with support of all the members.
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Re: What is this for you ?

Postby Raviprakash S S » Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:45 pm

Hi,

I am watching this pic from past 2-3 days. It evokes some emotions, but i am struggling to express it. 'Balancing act' is closest what i can say right now.. i will see if i can add anything further on this..
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Re: What is this for you ?

Postby Soham Sarkar » Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:13 am

For me

The sharp straight line at the back of the sculpture (left side) is quite masculine. while the front right curvature has been feminine. It is best to describe that as an union of Lord Siva and Parvathi or as the union of any two Male and Female ideas.the lower portion (up on the pedestal) does not speak of any explicit male or female form, hence could be explained as an uncorrupted pure entity. (Abstraction is what where there is no generalization)
Surely, it represents the balance of life (yin and Yang) and completion- if you want to describe in single sentence.
Use of marble makes it soft, serene.
-Thanks.
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Re: What is this for you ?

Postby Nilanjan Das » Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:54 am

Ok, now that this thread has generated some interest, the next in line question would be...

Do you think this sculpture needs a caption ? If yes then why ? and if No, then why ? For the time being we would still not want to reveal the caption. I know probably a few have found this on the internet, know the caption, know the words of the artist and the curator. But again forget all that, let's think of a very personal journey...your journey...plz try to think this sculpture to be yours and tell yes why a caption is or is not important. Plz do not limit your thoughts within the definitions of Abstracts, think like you are the creator of this work and what you have created has a purpose. Now another purpose lies in the way you have thought of presenting the creation....let's know if captioning would help more or it is better left alone for the viewer to interpret. All we are trying to understand are a few why ? We will definitely not do things because things are done that way or someone great has suggested that's how it's done. Every layer in our thoughts and every layer in the images, be it literal or non literal should be in your control right ?? If you are right then you should build up a case around your thoughts, defend the case with all your heart :-).

Really looking forward to receiving your thoughts once again...those who have not yet opened up, plz share your views :-). Again I guess nothing is right or wrong....even if you are the only person who thoughts are away from others, it does not mean others are right. Let's do all this in a very festive mood....a virtual cnp meet may be :-).

RD, Biloor, Adithya UN, all of u create abstracts, I was really hoping to see some of your participation.
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Re: What is this for you ?

Postby dinesh.ramarao » Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:20 am

"If you know about this then please keep quite for now"
make me silent Nilanjan :)
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Re: What is this for you ?

Postby Rajkumar » Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:41 pm

hmmm. In my thinking caption is not essential at all.
The art is titillating certain senses. awakening certain memories or primordial reactions. Such being the case the title is not required to set a context or give it any additional meaning . In fact it unnecessarily takes way from a viewers authentic experience and contaminates thoughts.

One more thought is the Art grows in the viewers mind . For example, the more I go back and look at Van Gogh “ Starry Nights” the richer the experience and more mesmerizing

What I have found as a viewer is the question : have I been able to silence all other superficial “making meaning “ thoughts and experience with my true inner feelings. Trying to get there.
Doing that while taking a picture is again another matter .

Sorry . Just my rambling
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Re: What is this for you ?

Postby Adithya Biloor » Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:02 pm

Apologies. When I saw the image I was curious about it. I knew how to google text, but didn't know how to search images. I gave it a try, surprisingly I got the information about the image, it's history, creator etc. Now, I don't have the suspense bubble. To obey Ganesh's words I had to keep quite. :)

In continuation with the discussion I want to share my small experience. I have made a 12*18 print of my image which was considered as one of the image of the year in CNP and displayed in a place where many people come and see the image along with a few other photographs. There is also an image of 2 king cobras fighting. When I say them one of these images has got a recognition, many think image of the king cobras is that image. With their experience in photography (now a days every one has a camera and every one is a photographer ) most of them hesitate to believe it as a photograph. Also, 2 king cobras in one frame is rarer than a black line on a white paper.

What is the uniqueness which CNPians saw in that image which these people can't see?

I think culture, value system, experience, age etc of the viewer play a vital role in the evaluation of an art piece. This is true with every art including abstracts. In that sense when we share an open end abstract image (without title, description) to a known audience that will not be really an open end image as we know the taste of the audience. We have already explained about the image through our earlier images, discussions, interactions. When there is a lack of title viewer enters the image with the help of creator's earlier works. Initially RD has posted this image without any title. Most of us suggested the title AOC to this image. In the same way when we share a close end abstract (with title and description) to a new audience it becomes an open end abstract as the audience enter the the image without the knowledge of what creator thinks(except for the title and description). What if RD had posted this image on INW or NPN ? Was it possible for the members to connect with clutter or art even if he had titled it AOC?

I am trying to put myself in the crowd which is seeing the sculpture in the museum. Definitely in that case my experience would have been different. I remember an experiment conducted by a famous magazine in US. they asked a famous violinist(?) to play his best music in a crowded railway station. A week back his tickets were sold to a very big amount.
When he started playing violin hardly anyone noticed him. The piece he was playing was one of the most difficult piece which takes years of training to perfect. Still no one noticed him. The reason is simple. a crowded railway station with busy people is not a place for music, even though many of them might have bought that ticket for a exorbitant price a week back.

Similarly would Duchamp's famous creation fountain create same impact if he repeats the work now?

Am I deviating too much from the topic?

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Re: What is this for you ?

Postby Ganesh H Shankar » Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:58 pm

First of all my apologies for posting the thread and absconding from the forum for last few days. I was away from Bangalore and had no network access.

Nilanjan and me were having a discussion about the medium of photography and challenges related to creative expressions compared to other medium of expressions like painting/sculpting etc. We were discussing about this sculpture and then thought of sharing this to seek your thoughts.Thanks Nilanjan for steering the discussions on this thread - very interesting to read so many fine thoughts.

Let me share what this one is - this is supposed to be Bird in Space by Constantin Brancusi, a French Sculptor (click the link to read more). Since I too have read about this I am not eligible to say what this means to me :) However, I do believe it fits a larger bill than just 'the essence of flight'.

Quill, Balancing Act, Elegant Dancer, Feminine figure.. I think everyone is right. As we discussed in past a good work of art connects with viewers and does not beg for meaning.

Since this "Bird in Space" this is a non-nature work of art why is it relevant to us ?

Some of us here are tilting towards non-literal representation of nature. In past we explored pure abstracts, abstract realism etc. However, often in such attempts end products (images) were results of capture of some patterns of nature which might hide reality of what was being photographed. The approach of reduction used here looks very interesting to me. We often struggle in field wondering about new creations. Can this approach of reduction help us create more powerful and purposeful abstractions ? Just wondering..

Coming to Adithya's point about trained eyes to appreciate art, while that is true for the most of the work that we produce I do agree with Nilanajan's views that onus lies with the artists. Great work of art probably touches masses, good work (only) touches fellow artists. Viewers are always right !

I think intensity of imagination a work of art triggers is directly proportional to the intensity of the imagination that went into its creation.
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Re: What is this for you ?

Postby Soham Sarkar » Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:11 pm

I do completely agree with Mr. GH Sankar. It was an wonderful experience to read this thread, rather elating one. Only, I wish if I had recognized this 1923 article, famous for highest bidding. Certainly I can see the body of a bird, more of a columbidae family (family of pigeons), in the middle spherical portion of the sculpture, representing its breast area, and its tail, taking a sharp flight upward- it gives the perfect sense, probably little less complex than what I was expecting. I believe, it was difficult to recognize mainly because the sculptor severed the main feature-wings, and more importantly played with general expectation by putting the body upright instead of horizontal. It was definitely an enjoyable challenge for recognition and intelligence. Also I wonder on the merit of the decision found among contemporary artists to leave their works untitled! -A good experience.
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Re: What is this for you ?

Postby Ganesh H Shankar » Thu Apr 25, 2013 6:04 pm

Soham, agree with you that horizontal arrangement would have given more clues, probably the artist would have felt the vertical arrangement would increase the abstractness. More than the puzzle part of it I think the approach used here, namely the reduction of flight to a simpler form as an abstraction is very appealing to me.
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Re: What is this for you ?

Postby Nilanjan Das » Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:02 pm

Ok, so now I guess it's my turn to write what this image means to me as a viewer who is seeing this work in a museum and not in a place of insignificance as very aptly mentioned by Biloor. If I read the caption while viewing it, then I would probably see it as a deconstructed creation where the longer piece is the beak belongs to the mother and the shorter one is the beak of the chick and that platform is a nest. I could imagine the bird to be whatever species, whatever color, whatever nonsense comes to my mind. Now without the caption....if am still forced to extract a sense of out of it, I would too try to assign a meaning to this creation in the similar directions like most of you have done, but one thing is for sure, if the sculpture was lying on a dirty shelf of a road side curio shop, am almost certain that I would not have even spent a minute to figure out what this means. Now let me think about this as a creator myself. I can see an image of a bird feeding a chick, a full visual which is fully in focus, not deconstructed and still perhaps feel the same way the relation between the mother and the chick has been portrayed. My emotional responses would still be the same. I can see the entire image, mentally deconstruct a few areas if I want and still be happy about the beaks touching each other. Now if we come to the question would it be art if the whole bird is seen ? To those who think no, I want to ask would it be art if it was lying down unnoticed on a dirty shelf without a caption, instead of being in a museum probably sold for millions of dollars :-) ?
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Re: What is this for you ?

Postby Adithya Biloor » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:14 pm

@Ganesh- I can say I am still in dilemma about this :). My point is not about the viewers training, but about the context of the art. The time and space where the art is presented.
Coming back to the above sculpture example- Probably this was the first modern art attempt in seeing a bird like this. May be sculptures with even more reduction, even more depth have been created after this sculpture. But this being a first one it has unique place in history of art.
Similarly in the present day can Monalisa be considered as great painting, without it's context?
Nilanjan Das wrote:but one thing is for sure, if the sculpture was lying on a dirty shelf of a road side curio shop, am almost certain that I would not have even spent a minute to figure out what this means

I think this is what I am trying to say. Not only the viewers taste, history of the art also becomes important.

Ganesh H Shankar wrote:Great work of art probably touches masses, good work (only) touches fellow artists. Viewers are always right !

Personally I don't like to differentiate the viewers as artists and masses. May be we should say some has more experience in art and some has less.

About the reduction- I think we are experimenting with this. To me use of zoom burst, defocus, panning, over exposure to get high key, under exposure to get low key etc are to get the gist by eliminating the 'unnecessary' elements.
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Re: What is this for you ?

Postby Ganesh H Shankar » Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:59 pm

May be sculptures with even more reduction, even more depth have been created after this sculpture. But this being a first one it has unique place in history of art.


Adithya, my point is not about the relative merit of this work compared to others (including those which are not in the art galleries). It is about the concept used in the creation of abstraction. Yes, every one may not connect the same way, if most can connect in some way then it is a success in my mind. If majority can't connect then it will remain as a work of art only to its creator (and there is nothing wrong with that). It is not about context and history (or its value in the market), it is about viewers' ability to connect to it in some way.

I think we are experimenting with this. To me use of zoom burst, defocus, panning, over exposure....


I think most of the abstract that we are used to is 'capturing an abstract pattern' in the nature. How often 'reduction' is a conscious thought process behind our attempts at abstractions? Often it is an afterthought :)

Zoom bursts, panning, blurring (and picking the best one) is often a random trial and error process, reduction is rarely the thought process behind most of the abstract creations. For example, how often zoom burst is used as a controlled reduction ? Also, I am not saying reduction is more important that the final work of art itself. Further, random trial and error can't work with an empty canvas or with a piece of raw stone (marble in this case) - just my thoughts. Your thoughts ? Please feel free to differ :)
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Re: What is this for you ?

Postby Soham Sarkar » Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:17 pm

Mr. Adithya Biloor, I understand what you meant by first generation abstract movement, I too feel that the background of any artwork must be really important for judging it but timeless pieces are marvels of our civilization e.g. "crying lady" by Picasso or "David". Pieces like them do not require any prior introduction but some of course do. I too find that Mona Liza is not so great when judged in isolation- personal feeling.

I believe quality pieces are recognizable no matter where they are found, depends on eyes of the beholder, I would surely have recognized this piece, may not be exactly as a flying bird, had it been laden with dust and thrown at roadside. Think of the cave paintings of per-historic era, significant amount of reduction has been present there if not a great degree of abstraction. They are no doubt quality works surpassing time and culture. Also, it is to be mentioned that all reductions are not abstractions, neither all abstraction require reduction.
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Re: What is this for you ?

Postby Soham Sarkar » Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:21 pm

To Mr. GH Sankar, yes, I think the concept of a sharp flight upwards is the real point of abstraction here while the figure itself was reduced successfully.
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Re: What is this for you ?

Postby Adithya Biloor » Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:26 pm

Ganesh H Shankar wrote:Zoom bursts, panning, blurring (and picking the best one) is often a random trial and error process, reduction is rarely the thought process behind most of the abstract creations

But it doesn't take out the ability of these techniques to use for reduction. There is a possibility of using them for reduction. ( I have seen people who use these techniques carefully with keeping final result in mind. e.g. Sacha's high key images.)
And even the sculptors, painters do lots of sketches, attempts before completing the work.
Ganesh H Shankar wrote:my point is not about the relative merit of this work compared to others (including those which are not in the art galleries). It is about the concept used in the creation of abstraction.

Yes, I understand this Ganesh. :) I have deviated from the topic slightly and tried to understand the significance of "history" of an art work.
Soham Sarkar wrote: but timeless pieces are marvels of our civilization

Yes, Soham- I fully agree that there are timeless pieces of art.

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