Three simple equations...

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Three simple equations...

Postby Ganesh H Shankar » Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:40 pm

On a lighter note, I think these three simple equations fit the nature photography genre well:

My Image = Image + Me
Image = My Image - Me
Me = My Image - Image

We can make an "Image" if we choose to! Not an easy task though...
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Re: Three simple equations...

Postby Prashanth Sampagar » Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:46 pm

Very meaningful lines, Ganesh! But how to remove "me" is the question?

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Re: Three simple equations...

Postby Ganesh H Shankar » Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:16 am

Prashanth! I think that needs turning some pages of philosophic literature :) I am not sure whether grey hairs is a prerequisite!
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Re: Three simple equations...

Postby Prashanth Sampagar » Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:09 am

Ganesh, on a lighter note, probably reading such literature could lead to another problem like "I" have read this literature. Life is a master, it knows where to teach what, probably learning depends on what we take from these experiences. Seems easier though which isn't so. BTW, I've started getting grey hairs even if it's a prerequisite shouldn't stop "me" :)

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Re: Three simple equations...

Postby Anders Wahlund » Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:34 am

My Image = Image + Me
Image = My Image - Me
Me = My Image - Image
Leads to:
My Image = Image + (My Image - Image)
My Image - My Image = Image - Image
0 = 0
The meaning will be "null and nothing" if you try to take Me out of my images, that is to say "the result will be meaningless". :)
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Re: Three simple equations...

Postby Ganesh H Shankar » Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:47 pm

Hey Anders, I am with you till last but one line, that is, till,

0 = 0 :)

I must say that it is an interesting derivation which underlines the observations I made, which means the original assertions are correct, which now appears tautological due to your derivation :) In fact, I realized, any equation of the form A = B will result in the same conclusion (replacing B by A implies, A = A and hence A-A = 0 => 0 = 0). However, it is not clear to me how you derived your last line of observation from the preceding equation, 0 = 0!

There are was a very interesting discussion between Albert Einstein and Rabindranath Tagore on the nature on reality. Let me quote a few snippets here,

Einstein asked Tagore - "Do you believe in the divine isolated from the world?".

"The infinite personality of man comprehends the universe.There cannot be anything that cannot be subsumed by the human personality, and this proves that the truth of the universe is human truth." – said Tagore.

However, for Einstein,

"the truth is independent of human beings."

For Tagore,

"if there be any truth absolutely unrelated to humanity, then for us it is absolutely non-existing."

Einstein, who strongly believed in truth beyond human existence declared:

"Then I am more religious than you are!"

For me Einstein's argument is more appealing.

Now, if we substitute the word "Divine" with the word "Nature" (which is the very basis of pantheism) we will end up in a similar conclusion that I started with. I think an "interesting" image of nature needs an independent voice and finding that is photographer's creativity. I think such an expression should not be tied to our Darwinian desires (making a living/survival). Easier said than done, though :)
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Re: Three simple equations...

Postby Anders Wahlund » Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:52 am

Even I do not know how I did think. I was tired and then it felt rather logical. :-)

But interesting, even I am not a learned philosopher I would say:
The statement "the truth is independent of human beings." - this does not sound logic at all.

What is truth and when did truth start to exist? In the nature, before the human being, truth must have been irrelevant. I cannot believe that truth existed before the human beings. It is invented by the human beings, as one of the tools to define and understand what exists around us.

When it comes to "divene" it is probably something similiar. I guess Gods are existing, only because humans have invented them and defined their attributes. We need Gods, as consolation when we feel small and helpless. (But maybe I am wrong, and all Gods are showing the tongue at me now.)

Nature was in some kind of way existing before the human beeing. No human invented it, and it very seems as the nature is something greater than something we could invent (as Gods for example).

To substitute "divine" with "nature": It feels more relevant, or at least more interesting, to point our interest to what is the "nature". But only substitute the word, then the sentence will be: "Do you believe in the nature isolated from the world?" Here it is hard to understand. What is the difference of nature and the world?

But as you say "...an interesting" image of nature needs an independent voice and finding that is photographer's creativity." I can only agree. When someone makes an image that open my eyes for something that is there in the nature, but what I before did not see or understand - it give me a much bigger kick than photoshop landscapes.
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Re: Three simple equations...

Postby Vikas T R » Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:44 pm

Whenever I hear about truth and the origin, this runs in the background of my brain, this is the song that used to play with "Bharat Ek Khoj(Discovery of India). I got the English translation from one of the websites and sharing it here.


The starting song consists of sanskrit shloka from Nasadeeya Sukta which is part of Rigveda.


नासदासीन्नोसदासीत्तादानीं नासीद्रजो नो व्योमापरो यत |
किमावरीव: कुहकस्यशर्मन्नम्भ: किमासीद्गहनं गभीरं ||

nāsadāsīn no sadāsīt tadānīṃ nāsīd rajo no vyomāparo yat |
kimāvarīvaḥ kuha kasya śarmannambhaḥ kimāsīd ghahanaṃ ghabhīram

Srishtee se pehle sat nahin thaa, asat bhi nahin
(Before creation there was no truth, or untruth)

Antariksh bhi nahin, akash bhin nahin thaa
(no universe, not even the sky)

chhipaa thaa kyaa kahaan, kisne dhakaa thaa
(Where was it hidden, who hid it ?)

us pal to agam, atal jal bhi kahaan thaa
(At that time there was no water)

Srishtee kaa kaun hai kartaa
(who is he creator ?)
Kartaa hai vaa akartaa

Oonche aakash mein rahtaa
(Who stays up there in the sky )

Sada adhyaksh banaa rahtaa
(who is in charge)

Wahin sachmuch mein jaantaa..Yaa nahin bhi jaanataa
(He truly must know everything, and maybe not!)

Hai kisi ko nahin pataa, nahin pataa,
(no one knows..no one knows)
Nahin hai pataa, nahin hai pataa



The ending track is first shloka from Hiranyagarbha sooktam which is also a part of Rigveda.

हिरण्यगर्भः समवर्तताग्रे भूतस्य जातः पतिरेकासीत ।
स दाधार पृथ्वीं ध्यामुतेमां कस्मै देवायहविषा विधेम ॥

Weh tha hiranyagarbh srishti se pehle vidyamaan
(he was born out of the depths..before creation)

Wahi to saare bhoot jaat ka swami mahaan
(he is the lord of all life)

jo hai astitvamaana dharti aasmaan dhaaran kar
(the one who is there over land and sky)

Aise kis devta ki upasana karein hum avi dekar
(who is this god who we pray to ?)

Jis ke bal par tejomay hai ambar
(He whose strength the sky is held up with)

Prithvi hari bhari sthapit sthir
(and the earth lies green and stable)

Swarg aur sooraj bhi sthir
(the heavens and the sun stay stable)

Aise kis devta ki upasana karein hum avi dekar
(who is this god who we pray to ?)

Garbh mein apne agni dhaaran kar paida kar
(In whose womb lies fire)

Vyapa tha jal idhar udhar neeche upar
(who controls here, there and everywhere)

Jagaa chuke vo ka ekameva pran banker
(who gives rise to life)

Aise kis devta ki upasana karein hum avi dekar
(who is this god who we pray to ?)

Om ! Srishti nirmata swarg rachiyata purvaj raksha kar
(creator of creation, the heavens and who looked after our ancestors)

Satya dharma palak atul jal niyamak raksha kar
(who keeps the truth, justice and the essence of life)

Phaili hain dishayen bahu jaisi uski sab mein sab par
(whose hands seem to stretch over all there is )

Aise hi devta ki upasana kare hum avi dekar
(this is the god who we pray to)

Aise hi devta ki upasana kare hum avi dekar
(this is the god who we pray to)


On a lighter note, we have also heard this from one of the movies -

ನಾನು ಹುಟ್ಟಿದ ಮೇಲೇನೇ  ಶತಕೋಟಿ ದೇವರು ಹುಟ್ಟಿದ್ದು
ನಾನು ಕಣ್ಣು ಬಿಟ್ಟ ಮೇಲೇನೇ  ಆ ಸೂರ್ಯ ಚಂದ್ರರು ಹುಟ್ಟಿದ್ದು,
ನಾನು ಇಲ್ಲದೆ ಏನಿಲ್ಲ, ನಾನಿದ್ರೆ ಎಲ್ಲ 

vaguely translates to -

All gods are born after my birth
Sun and Moon are born after I opened my eyes
there is nothing without me and everything exists only if I exist


:D :D :D
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Re: Three simple equations...

Postby Ganesh H Shankar » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:54 pm

Thanks for sharing, Vikas. I think this skepticism expressed in Nasadiya Sukta about the existence of God probably around 1500BCE is remarkable. Sometime I ago I had shared this below video where Carl Sagan quotes some of these from Rigveda in his opening remark in the video.

"Or perhaps he knows not!" - I just loved that line.



As Anders remarked probably we humans have invented (personal) God. That said, the definition of 'God' may be different for different people. Einstein believed in 'Spinoza's God' which as I understand is another name for 'Nature'. I think Einstein had a difficulty in accepting 'Nature is an opinion' (as probably what was thought by Tagore). He wondered helplessly and appreciated the unknown source of the immense incomprehensible beauty in universe and in laws of nature. As I understand, for him this beauty did not originate in human mind, it did not stem of limitations of human mind either. It exists irrespective.
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